Wanted: Your Opinion of IS Classroom Mgmt/Discipline

principalsoffice71845522bigA discussion of classroom management in International Schools was recently initiated on the ISR Forum by a contributing Member. ISR is transplanting this topic here to the ISR Blog to foster a wide exchange of ideas & experiences. This a topic not yet explored on ISR. Your input is requested:


.I recently returned to the US to finish up my alternative certification program. I was placed in a low-income school to do my student teaching. It is a bloody circus in my mentor teacher’s class! She is constantly having to tell students to stop talking, stay in their seat, etc. They don’t listen to her and laugh when you try to discipline them.

If a kid gets crazy-crazy bad, I have seen her send them to the administration. But for the most part she is content with just repeating herself a thousand times during class, I presume. For reference, my only experience has been mostly ESL work and some student teaching in Korea. The kids at the IS’s were behaved. As for the kids at the language academies, they can be unruly if you let them, but usually if you are stern, consistent, and discipline them they will shape up. I think the main problem with education is schools are not committed to having controlled, engaged, high learning classrooms.

It is frowned upon to send kids to admin, in-school suspension, after-school detention, and suspension. If a kid is incapable of refraining from disrupting the class, they should be removed from the classroom and school. The hell with hurt feelings and any other bs reasons to try and accommodate these types of students.

I do not imagine this is as big of an issue in the IS scene as that is a different type of demographic. But I am sure there are some outliers.

What has been your experience and opinion with this?

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Big-Time Teacher Salute from a Former International School Student


Dear international teachers,
From 5th grade through graduation I attended schools in 4 countries and loved nearly every minute of it.  My parents were both international school teachers and together we got to see the world. I have beautiful rose-colored memories of sights and cultures experienced over a childhood spent globe-trotting.  Now, as an adult with children of my own, I recently ventured into the online world to wallow in nostalgia and, perhaps, take the career leap into international teaching myself.

Of course, within minutes of searching for international schools I stumbled upon International Schools Review.  Out of curiosity I joined and began reading reviews of random schools.  Let me tell you, I was floored!  Maybe my family was lucky, or maybe my parents did a good job of shielding me from the up-close realities of teaching at these schools, but I had no idea that so many of you went through such mistreatment and abuse!

When I look back, I suppose I can see some of the issues that arose from living overseas:  I remember long hours spent in 3rd-world airports, disappointing housing accommodations in a new country, and seemingly endless days and paperwork in waiting rooms to get passports stamped, visas supplied, doctor’s appointments completed and immunizations provided.  Each new location was greeted with lots of embarrassing cultural exchanges, miscommunication and a constant, nagging feeling of being lost while navigating a new city, a new school, unfamiliar school standards, unknown classmates/peers, and a totally different way of interacting with others in my school and community. And all this discomfort was just for me as a child.

When I read on ISR what teachers have to deal with, the administrations of these international schools sound especially unpleasant.  In hindsight, I imagine that some of the rich, overly indulged kids I experienced as peers were probably very challenging to have as students.  I am sure that many of the filthy rich parents who welcomed me into their lavish, sometimes obscenely so, homes were demanding and awful to tangle with, especially if the director took their side in the battle. I can’t imagine working with few materials, missing paychecks, vendettas by insecure administrators, and/or maltreatment of local staff.

After some time reading ISR as a member, I must say that I am sincerely impressed with you all as a community.  Never once as a student did I get the impression that my teachers were being put through the ringer. To smile and inform a classroom of children while left unsupported and unappreciated by the school/parents/students themselves is a Herculean feat.  I know that in international schools I was given a great education by a group of creative, inspirational teachers who truly cared.  So whatever you all are going through day-to-day, remember that you ARE changing and shaping lives for the better.  Without a doubt I know I am a better person for all you did for us students, and I absolutely salute you!
Thank you!

A former international student

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Hiroshima-Nagasaki: Students Pedal for Peace

pedaltopeaceDear International Schools Review, I am a teacher at Hiroshima International School. Our students are taking part in the 70th anniversary of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The group aims to promote peace by cycling nearly 500km from Hiroshima Peace Park to Nagasaki Peace Memorial Hall where they will present 1000 paper cranes to Nagasaki Peace Memorial Hall as a symbolic gesture of peace.

The significance of 1000 paper cranes originates from the story of Sadako Sasaki, who was 2 years old at the time of the atomic bombings and survived the blast in Hiroshima. She later suffered from leukemia and died in 1955, age 12. Whilst in hospital, Sadako heard of a Japanese legend that promised a wish to anyone who folded 1000 paper cranes.

peace61034336The ride, known as the ‘Peace Ride’, has involved the wider community with fund-raising efforts and donations We are now trying to get 1000 likes on our Facebook page to represent 1000 paper cranes. It would be great if you could Like and Share our page.

Teacher Fired for Confronting Bully Issue

bully50259047After watching one of her students blow his nose on other students, push them down and call them inappropriate names, Nicole LeMire, a fifth-grade teacher at Glen Oak Elementary in Ohio, decided to discuss the incident in her classroom. She addressed the bully by saying, “Do you know how your actions and words are hurting other students and your friends?” From her own account of the situation, “That is all I said.”

It was after the bully’s parents reported the discussion that the school board claimed LeMire had displayed poor judgment in trying to resolve the incident. The board fired her at an open meeting in front of her supporters. District Assistant Superintendent Linda Martin said, “By encouraging an entire classroom of students to bully this one student, LeMire had gone too far.”

Dorothy Espelage, professor of educational philosophy at The University of Illinois is an expert on bullying. She tells us that publicly confronting a bully is exactly what teachers should be doing – “We want teachers to have an open conversation about bullying in their classrooms.” She stresses, at the beginning of the school year teachers should talk to their students about creating a class atmosphere that says We do NOT accept bullying.

Are we, as teachers, expected to turn a blind eye to bullying? Are we supposed to pretend we just didn’t witness bullying? What message would such actions have on the victims of bullying? If bullied kids don’t feel supported, then what? The incident that led to Nicole LeMire loosing her job took place in the United States, a country that presents itself as a land of laws and procedures. Transpose this incident to a country where wealthy parents intimidate school directors and manipulate legal systems to yield to their demands, and LeMire could well have found herself imprisoned, or worse!

A Google search for Nicole LeMire will bring up many newspaper and magazine articles on this event.

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I’m Not Cut Out for THIS!

..Our previous
Newsletter featured a letter
from a school Admin asking that teachers seriously consider if they’re really cut out to live & teach overseas. He asserted that when a teacher’s preconceived ideas & fantasies turn out to be in sharp contrast to reality, they may become frustrated/disillusioned & thereafter post awful Reviews to ISR. He stressed the following points & suggests teachers ask themselves, Am I Cut Out for This? (click here to see full article)

“…If you are going overseas for an international experience, let it be what it is and experience it with all its ups and downs, its occasional discomforts and daily delights. No one suggests you have to like everything about it, but if you feel the need to reshape your school and community to conform to your perception of what’s ‘best’, you’re plainly not going to enjoy it overseas.”

..How very true! But at what point does a teacher’s personal code of what is ethical & moral dictate they can no longer stand idle on the sidelines accepting injustices in the name of ‘adapting to a new environment’? One comment brings this point to light:

“…Most of the teachers I have met overseas are incredibly flexible but also professional. It’s when the administration, who are also expat, bow to local custom of allowing bullying by students, assaults by students, and cheating by students that really upsets me…When teachers challenge the accepted behaviour and are told to just ‘go along’, I believe that to be wrong.”

..Another educator further commented:

“…It is important they (teachers) bring with them the educational practices and ethical expectations received in their training and experience from whatever part of the globe. School cultures that accept classroom disruption, bullying, patronizing contempt for teachers and their contracts, abuse and assault as normal behaviours must be rejected outright and changed by legal intervention.”

ISR asks, At what point should you speak up? What do YOU consider the dividing line between failure to adapt & what’s morally/ethically right? How do you handle a situation in which the school Admin bows to parental pressure, leaving you completely unsupported & expected to do the same?

Are YOU Cut Out for This?

Problem And SolutionDear ISR: I’ve been an ISR member for several years now. Based on what I’ve read, I’ve concluded that a percentage of reviewers go overseas with preconceived ideas and expectations. When reality doesn’t meet the fantasy, it seems they became frustrated and embittered, and then the next step is that they post awful reviews about their experience.

Let’s be honest — International teaching is not for everyone. For educators who think life overseas is going to be a typical teaching job similar to theirs back home, but transposed into a wildly exotic setting, there are some harsh realities to face. For the benefit of those of us who love the challenge of teaching internationally, I would ask teachers to consider the following before recruiting….

I often hear the phrase, “You need to be flexible to teach overseas.” This is true, yet I would say most people already consider themselves perfectly “flexible.” However, to make it as an international teacher you must truly be capable of accepting different ways of doing nearly everything, even when you know there is a better way. You must be “flexible” enough to remember you’ve been invited to educate students, not bend a culture to fit your ingrained ideas of how things should be. Real change starts from within an organization and until you accept what IS, you are not in a position to effect changes. If you can’t accept this philosophy and think everyone should jump to institute what, you, the great educator from the West is proposing, the answer to Am I cut out for this? is a resounding NO!

I hear teachers complain that their opinions are not taken into account when administrators make decisions. They feel belittled, unappreciated. The bottom line is this: Teachers are hired to teach. If I, as an administrator, wanted a mentor I would find one. I do listen to my teachers but anyone just coming into my school has little understanding of the community we serve. Their perception of what needs to be done, while appropriate and valid in their home country, may be completely out of place here. My job is to administer to the overall needs of my school, making decisions that take into account elements of a situation to which teachers are not privy. Again, if your ego tells you that you, as a teaching “professional,” should be consulted on every decision made at the school, the answer to Am I cut out for this? is a resounding NO!

Finally, I want to mention that housing, roads, school materials, transportation, communication, water/air/electricity quality, level of corruption, construction quality, and just about every other facet of life internationally may never, ever be like it is back home. If you are going overseas for an international experience, let it be what it is and experience it with all its ups and downs, its occasional discomforts and daily delights. No one suggests you have to like everything about it, but if you feel the need to reshape your school and community to conform to your perception of what’s “best”, you’re plainly not going to enjoy it overseas. Ask yourself the hard question and be honest: Am I cut out for this? Hopefully, the answer will be, for YOU, a resounding YES!

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Also see the sequel to this topic: I’m Not Cut Out for THIS

Built on Teachers’ Backs?

A team of several people work together to lift an arrow and theDear ISR: Maybe you can offer some advice? I signed up at my current school to teach children. Next thing I knew, I was expected to participate in 5 fund raising events so far this school year (with more planned) to help the owner finance what he calls a ‘Performing Arts Center’ for his already posh school.

It’s been made very clear that failure to participate in these fund raisers will result in termination. Unfortunately, my contract says I can be called upon to function in any manner the school sees necessary for the good of the school. Considering how much time gets sucked into these events, it looks like I’ve been duped! 

At our first all-faculty meeting the director told us about his plans to build this performing arts center. Okay….sounds good to me. Next thing I knew a schedule was handed out listing the fundraising events we, as teachers, were expected to participate in. Like I said, there’s been 5 of them already this school year. All funds go towards the construction of the new building.

Next comes Easter and here we go again: We’re having a carnival all day Saturday and into the evening, with food brought by the parents to be sold by the school for a 100% profit and activities run by the teachers. I’ve begrudgingly signed up to run one of the game-booths. Not exactly what I had planned for my weekend! I’m feeling taken advantage of and to be honest, I feel abused and it bothers the hell out of me. This all seems like one more corrupt scheme in an already very corrupt country.

Where the hell has all the tuition and capital funds money gone? Let me guess! Seems suspicious I wasn’t told about all this at the recruiting fair! Well, I was mislead about a lot of things. So, for self esteem’s sake I’m secretly planning to not return after summer vacation. Maybe I’m being ridiculous but I don’t feel good about myself wasting my time to make a rich man even richer. If you have any advice I could sure use it right now. Maybe your readers can shed some light on this? Do I have legal recourse? Do other schools do this?

Are You a Teacher or a Traveler First?

teacher55905287or-travelerNot everyone goes into teaching because they simply love children. Many of our colleagues entered the profession for the express purpose to live overseas & travel extensively. Interestingly, these individuals often discover they have an innate ability to teach & a passion for the profession. Had it not been for the lure of travel their talents may have remained undiscovered, to the detriment of International schools & students. Let’s consider these educators to be “Travelers first.”

On the other end of the spectrum are educators who, after years of grinding it out in the trenches of public schools, decide to take a chance on a different perspective & enter the world of International Education. Many have very limited, if any, travel experience. We’ll consider these individuals “Educators first.”

How do you fit into the picture? Are you a Teacher or a Traveler first? Or maybe you’re equally both? We invite you to  take our brief survey. Survey results display in real-time so be sure to check back from time-to-time.


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Entitled Students & Powerless Teachers

powerlessISR has received an eye-opening letter from a teacher describing an extreme situation that we feel merits discussion among the International Schools Review community. We share this letter with you here and invite your comments:

Dear ISR, I’m currently in South America at a school that caters to wealthy locals and I have encountered a situation I’ve never been forced to confront in all my years teaching overseas. Here’s what happened….

Last Saturday I parked at the mall and as I made my way toward the entrance, the smell of marijuana coming from a BMW was so overwhelming I couldn’t resist turning my head to see who would be so blatant as to be smoking in such a public place, especially here in South America where very distinct laws are in place. I was shocked! In the front seats I glanced two of my high school’s students, one with joint in hand. They both saw me looking and I continued walking without looking back or saying a word.

Monday, before class, one of the boys came to see me, although he’s not a student of mine. He told me his parents are aware of his activities and should I report him to the school, his wealthy and well-connected parents will make ‘trouble for me’. He also brought up my son (also a student at the school), and I clearly got the idea that he was making a not so veiled threat. These kids here are rich and their sense of power and entitlement is off the charts. For all I know, his parents are in the drug business, possibly big time.

I did speak with the director but kept the incident hypothetical. His response was that unless something takes place on campus, “It’s none of our business.” I am stunned that these kids have the power to do as they please and threaten me into silence.

I’m feeling abused, helpless and vulnerable, for both my son and myself, and at this point I am seriously considering leaving for home. If this incident is any indication of how things operate here, I don’t care to be around at report card time!

Any comments or advice in any way, shape, or form from educators with a similar experience as mine, or thoughts on this topic would be very reassuring at this time.

Thanks ISR for being here for us. Sincerely,

(Name withheld by request)

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Is ‘Paying for Grades’ the Norm?

payingforgrades49910573Dear ISR, I have a troubling question that has been eating at me. I wonder if you could solicit your readers for their opinion and experience in regards to this topic?

I am American and my husband is not. This year we moved to his home country and have two high school aged sons. We’ve enrolled them in a rather expensive international school here and our boys just received their first-quarter reports. Their grades are good, not great, but definitely above average.

I was on the campus yesterday and ran into the mother of one of my son’s classmates. In a braggart sort of way, this woman brought up the topic of grades and gloatingly told me her son got all “As”. My sons have told me her son is a class trouble maker and I’ve heard about some of his unpleasant antics. They also tell me he never does a lick of work and basically just hangs out and gives the teacher a bad time. I have to admit I was confused.

After my boys gave their report cards to their dad, I told him I learned that their classmate with a reputation for doing nothing in class had received all “As”. Our boys, who I know work hard, got mostly “B” grades. This is when I learned grades can be purchased.

My husband tells me the ultra rich here have the power to use their money to purchase favors, from law authorities on down to superior grades for their children. I suppose I shouldn’t be so naïve, but what about this boy? I really feel for this kid. It seems to me he is being set up to fail for the rest of his life just so his mother can boast the kid is an “A” student and look good to her friends and the community.

How common is this practice and can a school truthfully call itself an international school when it’s really just a supermarket for grades?

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Also see the American Experience – International Backdrop blog in which
a school owner writes in regards to teachers comments found in this blog.

Is This an International School?

international-kidsIf you ask a school owner what makes their school an International School, he/she may tell you it’s the international mix of the student body. Others may say it’s the recruited Western-educated teachers. Still others will point to their American or British curriculum.

If you’re teaching in what is termed an International School, you’re sure to have a different interpretation of what makes a school truly international than does the owner/director. Chances are you’ll question a school if the student body is composed of 98% local kids (some/many with dual citizenship)–does this influx of duel-citizenship passports qualify it for International status? Likewise, you have to wonder if an English-language curriculum is taught in strict lock-step with 3 other classrooms (same grade level), is this considered International Education? When all the kids on the school yard converse only in the local language, are they really international students?

From time-to-time we get letters from ISR members telling us that their current school, although represented at the conference as being an International School, has turned out to be nothing more than a glorified local school masquerading as something it is not. These same teachers tell us they would not have considered the job had they known at interview time that the term International was being used as nothing more than a thinly veneered part of a sales package.

In an effort to arrive at the definition for the term International School, we invite you to visit the Is This an International School? Blog and share your thoughts on the topic. With so many new teachers entering the field of International Education, here’s an opportunity for seasoned overseas educators to help newbies discover what they should be questioning at interview time.

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Please do not use this blog to comment on/evaluate individual schools
Click Here to tell colleagues about the international status of a specific school

What 1 Thing Would You Change?

Other than tossing out your school director, tell us the 1 thing you would change about your school to effect the biggest positive improvement?  Feel comfortable in naming your school? Go chanageswitch21894989right ahead! Maybe  your school admin will read your comments and take them to heart.

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MOOCs for Professional Development

learning6874555We just discovered MOOCs and are excited to pass on what we’ve learned to our ISR readers! Massive Open Online Courses, known as MOOCs, are usually free and support worldwide interactive participation. Along with traditional course materials such as lectures and visual tools, MOOCs provide interactive forums that build online communities of students and instructors. We were delighted to learn MOOCs are often sponsored by some prestigious universities. Read More

On the popular Canvas Network, MOOCs run the gamut from American Counter-Terrorism Law to topics of particular interest to International Educators. Here’s some courses we thought ISR readers may want to pursue:

• Teaching Diverse Students Online

• X-Word Grammar: The Simple Sentence

• Task-based Language Teaching with Digital Tools

• Risk Management in Higher Education: Student Issues

• Learning Beyond Letter Grades

.• Digital tools for the K-12 educator

• Statistics in Education for Mere Mortals

• Ethics and Values in a Multicultural World

The Canvas Network is just one of a handful of MOOCs popping up. Edx features courses from Berkley, Harvard and Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Udacity and Coursera are other online networks well worth a look. You may need to spring for a $40 – $60 text book, but that’s it.

If you’ve been wondering how to advance your career from overseas, or just looking for a way to pass those long weekends at the “outpost”, here’s your answer.

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Can We Help the World by Teaching ‘Entitled’ Kids?

entitled34361540It’s no secret a large number of our International school students come from families belonging to the uppermost financial echelon of their societies. As such, many of these kids are accustomed to enjoying the extreme privileges that come with such status, but without ever having taken part in the efforts required to earn those entitlements. For us as teachers, it should come as no surprise when these students expect ‘As’ in exchange for efforts that deserve ‘Cs’ at best.

While teaching in South America, I encountered entitled students for the first time. Our school was conducting a Science competition & at first sight the projects impressed me as nothing short of brilliant–skills in mathematics, industrial drawing, metal fabrication, welding, painting & carpentry were all evident in the creation of these projects. Later that year, however, small groups of these same students created and built teacher-assigned projects during school hours. I discovered they could not draw a workable diagram or nail two boards together. It was obvious they had not built the Science projects so celebrated just a few months earlier!

As we all know, domestic help is commonplace overseas: Workers clean house, wash the car, do the landscaping & prepare meals. But it’s an entirely different situation when household help create entire projects for students & even do their home work, particularly since these same children, propelled by their family name, will go into prominent business & government positions.

As International educators, we have the rare opportunity to influence these students & in essence, the future of their countries. Wow! What an opportunity! The question is, How do we reach these kids of the ‘silver spoon mentality’?

ISR invites you to share your successes with privileged students & relate how you went about motivating such students to work to their greatest potential.

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Teaching Lord Fauntleroy

We International Educators teach at thousands of schools across seven continents. We teach in every imaginable climate, in urban and rural settings, and in societies that range from predictably stable to utterly chaotic. Yet there is one detail that unites pretty much all of us no matter our tier, continent or subject area: We teach rich kids.

Some of us teach the top 25% of our host country’s socio-economic ladder. Some of us teach the top 1%. Some of us teach a slice of the global elite so exclusive their parents think nothing of flying to PTA meetings in their private Lear jets or gifting Rolex watches to faculty at the end of the year.

Even when a student’s family income wouldn’t turn a head back home in our own country, the family money is still many times what it would be for the majority of Chinese…or Bangladeshis or Indians or Africans. You get the picture.

Wealth facilitates a great deal of what we do, from the tuition money that keeps our schools running to the budgets that fund our departments to the salaries that put food on our tables and pay off our school debts–if you went to university in the US that is. Endowments give many international schools the freedom to make improvements to their facilities that would take significantly more time and paperwork in many state systems.

At the same time, affluent student populations present considerations we would be less likely to encounter in a state system back home. Students from affluent families may come to the classroom with unrealistic notions of how the world works and how it should serve them. They might be lulled into academic disengagement because they know, or have been told, their future is assured for them no matter the effort they put forth.

In this season of giving (and getting), let’s trade ideas on the perils and perks of being teachers and administrators of the affluent. The following questions strike me as important to tackle:

  How can we best realize the IB’s  goal of fostering “the intellectual, personal, emotional and social skills to live, learn and work in a rapidly globalizing world” if our students are only interacting with a small percentage of that world?

  How can we teach for social justice when the true sacrifice required to achieve it would be unpalatable if not unthinkable to many members of the elite?

•  How can we teach socio-economic awareness across the curriculum?

•  How can service learning projects be meaningful, life-changing experiences instead of token charity work?

  How can administrators deal with particularly powerful parents?

  How can we instruct students and families that money, perhaps more than at any moment in the history of the planet, needs to be a force for creating good rather than a badge for advertising status?

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Do Meaningless Mission Statements = Poor Schools?

To our way of thinking, a school’s mission statement should contain measurable goals. After all, if you cannot measure progress towards a set of goals, there’s no way to prove whether or not they are being met. Schools with the poorest reviews on the ISR web site seem to expound the most lofty, unmeasurable goals. Read these actual International School mission statements, for example:

  • The Mission of ___ School is to provide high quality holistic education in an inspiring learning environment that maximizes the potential of each individual to become a responsible global citizen.
  • The American International School of ___ prepares its students to be responsible global citizens and inspires in each a passion for knowledge and lifelong learning. We are a nurturing and diverse community that instills respect for self and others, develops the whole child, and strives for academic excellence.
  • The goal of The ___ School is to liberate the joy of learning within every child and nurture them as citizens of the world. We believe that global education is the key to continued success.

What, if anything above, is quantifiable or measurable? Are goals being met? Maybe, or maybe not. Who really knows? And maybe no one in administration really cares! In fact, the reviews of these schools tell the real story beyond the mission statement.

In contrast to the statements above, here is a mission statement from a school with many strong, outstanding reviews:

  • ABC Academy challenges its students to academic excellence through the medium of a college preparatory curriculum and U.S. academic standards, with instruction in English language. ABC Academy values community service and responsible global citizenship and promotes the integral development of each student within a multicultural setting.

What has your experience been with school mission statements? With the ever growing number of “for profit” schools springing up, a school’s mission statement could be a good indicator of what you may be signing up for!

Educating for an Unknown Future

The one thing we can say with certainty about the future is that we don’t know what it holds for us as a world community. Did You Know, a popular YouTube video, suggests ” We are currently preparing students for jobs and technologies that don’t yet exist….in order to solve problems we don’t even know are problems yet.” Did You Know has received 4.5 million viewings.

Obviously, no one knows which of the skills we teach today will enable our students to solve unknown future problems and make meaningful contributions to their societies. This is a dilemma facing us all as educators.

A recent post to an ISR blog caught our attention because it took the Did You Know theme a step further to say “institutional education is heading down a path that no longer serves the coming generation. A revolution is coming!”

A revolution is coming to institutional education as students continue to be “schooled” for a future that no longer exists. More and more, noted educators like John Gatto and Sir Ken Robinson are willing to say, “The Emperor is naked!”

We, home schooling parents, who have totally stepped out of the institutional school model are raising our children to have the time and resources to maximize their natural talents and creativity. As the rest of the industrial world continues down a path that no longer serves the coming generation, I beg credentialed teachers to be willing to ask the “unaskable question” (the one that is on the tongue of every student), “Why do I have to learn all this stuff!?”

ISR invites you to share your opinion:
Do you believe the “stuff” you teach will be relevant in the rapidly accelerating world of technology and skills? How individualized and focused on personal talents and creativity should education be? Should our present model of teaching past knowledge be our curriculum guide as we educate and prepare children for an unknown future? Has the Emperor become, indeed, completely disrobed?

ISR Invites YOUR comments